More unites us than divides us – Tsvangirai

her from the truth. He spoke to SARAH HUDLESTON while on a recent visit to Johannesburg.
SH:How do you find the position of Zimbabwean refugees here?
MT:One of the glaring concerns is the general policy attitude towards Zimbabwean refugees. It is as if there is not crisis in Zimbabwe, so we need to explain and update people here. You would be surprised to hear how many people praise Robert Mugabe while three million people, at a conservative estimate, have decided to leave the country because they cannot live there any more due to the untenable circumstances created by the Mugabe regime.
SH:Do you think more Zimbabweans should be absorbed into the SA economy through formal employment?
MT:People are amazed at the depth of skills possessed by many Zimbabweans in SA who have difficulty getting employment. Professional people like doctors, lawyers and teachers, engineers. Eventually they will be absorbed into the SA economy.
SH:Are you hoping that eventually they will go home?
MT:Of course, because you cannot have such a huge brain drain and still have a reconstruction programme such as the one we hope we will one day be able to work on. We need to have those people back home.
Q:How do you find it and how do you think these refugees survive here?
MT:When you think that many of them risk life and limb to cross the Limpopo River legally or illegally, to try and make a living in a situation that is so uncertain, it would personally scare the hell out of me. The position of the refugee in this country is very vulnerable. One has to make a choice, to starve in Zimbabwe or to risk that. And people are making a statement – with their feet.
SH:In terms of what is happening in Zimbabwe, what is happening to people right now? Do you think it has got a lot worse in the last six months?
MT:It is an untenable situation. You can no longer quantify the costs of the dictatorship in terms of the deprivation. No other country that has not been at war, has deteriorated to that extent.
SH:Quite a few people who went to the Mutambara faction of the MDC have now returned to the Tsvangirai fold. Are you having discussions with the other camp about healing the breach?
MT:Well it is quite true to say that there is more that unites us than divides us. We are now working together under the Save Zimbabwe campaign, which is a more purposeful alliance .The campaign is spearheaded by a broad alliance of civic society, the churches and the opposition to rally democratic forces against the regime in one movement.
SH:Are you disappointed that Zimbabwe is not higher on the SADC agenda?
MT:No, we all know how SADC operates. It operates on the basis of collective defence of leadership and not of the people. So as much as people would like to give those summits some kind of credibility, I think history has shown that since the existence of SADC, no violent leader has been brought to book based on the principles that SADC was founded.
SH:you think that Mugabe will willingly stand down in 2008 or will he be forced to stand down by forces within his party?
MT:I don’t know. I cannot speculate on the future of Mugabe when it comes to 2008. All I know that there is a scheduled presidential election in 2008 and naturally we will prepare for this poll. But the circumstances in which we have run three national elections which have been rigged and we need to reflect seriously whether another election will prove anything. So we will make the necessary preparations but this time we have to make an assessment to see whether it is worth running under the rules of Zanu(PF).
SH:But you still believe in the democratic process?
MT:Yes we believe in democratic elections and the right of the people to choose and they are being denied this.