Your Lordship, tell us a bit of your background.
I am 58 years old and I have worked for the church in various capacities from 1968 to the present day. I rose through the ranks till I became bishop in 2001. Professionally, I have been a lecturer at Lake Forrest University in Illinois, US, where I taught Political Science and Pan African Studies. So I am someone whose view of the world is a pedigree between political analysis and theology.
Have you been involved in active politics?
Not directly, but when Zimbabwe was involved in the armed struggle, everyone participated in one way or another. I was busy flying around with the Red Cross, visiting refugee camps in Zambia, Botswana and Tanzania. So I have seen my friends and relatives die during the war. When 20 whites die while resisting removal from African farmlands, the issue is exaggerated, but nobody talked about the 250,000 Africans who died in the war from 1960 to 1979. Even our fellow Africans have been prejudiced. They compare Mugabe to (former Ugandan president) Idi Amin. There are no people being killed in Zimbabwe.
But some people are being bashed on the heads
I have seen restricted zones here in Uganda. If any stubborn people went to those zones, they would be bashed on the head. That is what Tsvangarai did. He went to a place where he was not allowed to go. If you go to a Police camp and start fighting there, you get beaten. The Police are not just for maintaining peace, but also for enforcement of law and order. Even if I had my own government, I would do the same.
So you agree with the way Mugabe is handling the Zimbabwean situation?
I am looking at issues in Zimbabwe, not just Mugabe and his party. We went to war with the British over land and that is the reason we shall continue fighting.
When you go to church, how do you handle this issue of using violence to solve a problem?
Do not compare the church with the government.
So in church you say, well, well, let’s use
I am being realistic. The church needs the Police to protect it. You do not need to advocate violence in church, but the Police may use it (violence) to protect you.
In church, you quote scriptures to nourish the people you serve. How exactly do you handle that issue of the need to use violence to
There are soldiers in the church. They are not doing anything, but to protect human rights. Those who prevent (inaudible) others from accessing land . (inaudible) learnt from the British. Land is our birth right. Mugabe has his weaknesses, but he was chosen by God to be an agent of redistributing and transferring land from the Western world to the African people. And he has done that. Currently, land is in the hands of the Africans. God is doing that through a human act . because God works through people. He cannot use me because I have no force.
I understand you are related to Tsvangarai.
Our grandfathers were brothers. But that is not important. What is important is that he owns a farm. He is just deceiving the western world. His political party deceived people that they were not fighting for land, yet when we had the free distribution of land in 2002, they went for it. When Tsvangarai was campaigning, he promised to restore the lands to the whites. And you know that is not a very wise move. He lost support.
What do you have to say about the suspension of Zimbabwe from the Commonwealth?
As a Pan-Africanist, I said ‘Thank God’ when the Commonwealth suspended Zimbabwe. Knowing that Mugabe was also a Pan-Africanist, I knew he was going to walk out. The Commonwealth is a tool of the British to further their interests.
The problem with Africans is that we are not analytical. Western nations tell us lies, while we are dying. The Queen owned almost 200,000 hectares of land in Zimbabwe, almost a tenth of the country. That land was taken away from her. Lonrho, an Anglo-American Corporation, had similar chunks, but now has 1,000 hectares.
Is it a coincidence that you were in Kampala during CHOGM?
It is a coincidence. From here, I will be going to Kenya and Tanzania. Before coming to Uganda, I was in Malawi, Zambia and Congo. There was no CHOGM in all those countries.
As a tourist, a visiting preacher, or as .
I run the Diocese of Harare. I want it to grow. I want to compare how we fare, compared to other dioceses. But I also have Zimbabwe at heart. Recently, I attended a discussion about Zimbabwe at the Grand Imperial Hotel, but Bishop Edward Muhima (North Kigezi Diocese), who was directing the discussion, did not allow us to give our side of the story. We have problems in Zimbabwe because when we started redistributing land, multi-national corporations started fighting Zimbabwe . because the British Government could not compensate them. Zimbabwe is not supposed to compensate farmers, but there are costs that the government has to meet like paying for structures on the land.
The Government of Zimbabwe assesses the value of the property and pays the farmers?
I do not know. I think they negotiate with the farmers. But other compensations should be made by the British and the Americans. I was an observer at the 1980 Lancaster House Conference in London, where the Zimbabwean Independence settlement was made.
They agreed on the compensation arrangements. I was one of the angry young men who walked up to Mugabe and (Joshua) Nkomo to demand why they had not just grabbed the land back. But they explained that they did not want to scare away the whites and other investors. That was Britain under Margaret Thatcher. But 10 years later, in 1990, when the Blair Government took over power, it refused to honour its commitments.
Any word for Uganda’s leaders?
They should ask President Yoweri Museveni, the new Commonwealth chairman, to make the British look at the situation realistically instead of hiding behind other issues.
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