Majongwe defends teachers’ demands

Violet Gonda: Raymond Majongwe, the General Secretary of the
Progressive Teachers’ Union of Zimbabwe is my guest on the programme
Hot Seat. Now teachers have come under fire for refusing to return to
work and for demanding salary hikes pegged at 2 300 US dollars.
Raymond, what is your basis of demanding 2 300 US dollars a month?

Raymond Majongwe: We are not asking for $2 300 from nowhere. We have
done a thorough scientific analysis of the situation obtaining in
Zimbabwe. It’s quite clear that it’s only in Zimbabwe that the rand and
the US dollar have been humbled by inflation and it’s clear for
everybody to see that what 1 000 American dollars can buy in America,
you need 3 000 in Zimbabwe. What 1 000 rand can buy in South Africa you
need 3 to 4 000 in Zimbabwe. We are very clear about that. And we did a
clear scientific analysis of the situation obtaining in the country.

We also did a comparative analysis of what civil servants in the region
are earning. I think the lowest paid civil servants in the world are
found in Zimbabwe and the lowest paid teachers in the whole world are
found in Zimbabwe. As of January 2009 teachers were paid Z$31 trillion.
Z$31 trillion at that time was translating to exactly 2 rand. How would
anybody expect a man or a woman with a family with rentals and health
to take care of, to be paid 2 rand and be expected to be a patriotic
citizen? I think it would be naive for any person to simply say we must
keep quiet when we are being oppressed right in our eyes.

GONDA: What does it cost to have one student in a classroom these days?

MAJONGWE: Apparently the situation is now very different. I would be
lying if I would tell you anything because the situation that obtains
is that we now have so many different schools. In the past it would
have been very easy for somebody to say that this is the amount that
government or somebody should spend on education, but we have gotten to
a point where we are very poor people and we have very rich people.
These people live in one corner of the country and the other in the
other corner. One going to a private school with everything that you
can imagine and one who is going to a school in Gokwe where there is
not even a building to talk about, and that is exactly the dilemma that
one has – if one is going to try to put a monetary values to any of
these processes. Because as far as we are concerned the government
would stand up and put a figure but we are simply saying these are
conservative figures, we really need to go back to basics and factor in
everything because it is going to be very difficult for anybody to come
up and say anything now because nobody knows anything. There is no
school that is functioning especially in the government set up so it’s
very difficult for anybody to come up with a figure and say so much.

GONDA: The government says it has no money and it has offered to give
teachers and other civil servants US$100 a month. Now there are other
people who would say you are being paid from tax money and there is no
return. In other words you are not producing something that is sold at
the end of the month – that is an investment with no return until that
student you are teaching actually graduates.  So how realistic is your
demand given that there is no immediate return?

MAJONGWE: (chuckles) We are not making these demands from the blue. I
would tell you because we have a reason why we are saying this.
Teachers in 1980, when Mugabe took over government, could afford to buy
a house, could afford to buy a car, could afford to go on holiday,
could send all their siblings’

children to school and I will tell you for instance about me. Eight
children were born to my mother and my father; all of us went to
boarding schools, my father was just a mere headmaster, my mother just
a mere teacher. We were able to go to school, real schools where we
went to proper boarding schools.

All of the eight siblings of mine but now one teacher cannot even send their only one child to pre-school.

This is the situation where we are at and I think we must make it very
clear without any ambiguity that the government ran-down the
institution of education, deliberately disarticulated us, took us off
our feet, labelled us enemies of the State and made us paupers. And we
are saying as citizens we deserve better. We are also taxpayers. It’s
not like we are supposed to be paying tax, we are supposed to be
getting money that others are paying tax for. We are also taxpayers. We
work, we are employees of the government.

Many a time people forget that.

The intellect that they exude wherever they are going to be moving
around it is a product of our sweat. When Mugabe goes out to the UN and
everywhere saying he leads a country with the highest literacy rate he
is basically referring to what we have done as teachers and people want
to suddenly say, you don’t manufacture anything. All these doctors you
see, all these people, the brain drain we are talking about, those are
our direct products. It is a silent production but indeed we have
produced people with functional literacy and we must be rewarded for it.

GONDA: But Raymond, I still go back to the same question, how realistic
are your demands given the current political and economic situation? In
fact if I may add to that, if we are to compare what is happening in
the private school – and you can correct me if I’m wrong – teachers in
private schools are on a pay scale supported by revenues that actually
support the schools such as levies, and so parents with kids in private
schools are actually paying for their children to be taught. Is it not
the case that to some extent right now, the only way for you to
actually get such payments is if Zimbabweans can pay a higher income
tax or property tax – but then on the other hand, given the current
situation don’t you think your demands cannot be in isolation of some
of these external factors?

MAJONGWE: Yes we have a very scientific reason as to why we are saying
what we are saying. Teachers in Zimbabwe are not paid in isolation. You
look at what is happening in South Africa, there are private schools in
South Africa, there are private schools in Zambia and the teachers
there are well paid. You look at government institutions in Mozambique,
in Namibia and Botswana, South Africa and Lesotho, teachers are being
paid an average of not less than nine thousand rand, in the region. And
can you honestly stand up and say because we are in Zimbabwe, we have
an economy that is on its knees, therefore we cannot ask for so much?

I think that the fact that the government had the audacity to pay us
2rands, yet we see lavish spending and extravagant spending by
government aided by the irresponsible Reserve Bank governor, we have a
legitimate reason to stand up and say we should not accept anything
less than what we are asking for. We see a lot of lavish expenditure,
even now Mugabe is about to commemorate his birthday and there is a lot
of lavish spending there. You cannot expect us therefore to say we must
stomach and pretend that we don’t see all this expenditure. We must
stand up and say while are we having all these challenges, we also need
to survive, we have families to look after, we have children to send to
school. We know for a fact that we were being told that the diamonds
being mined at Chiadzwa – and the Reserve Bank governor was on national
television saying the country was being haemorrhaged out of 1.7billion
US dollars a month. And the government took over those mines. What is
happening to the money that is coming from there?

We know that we don’t have a manufacturing industry that is working,
but who are the culprits? It is the same government who took over the
companies that they can’t even run.

So we are simply saying we are asking what we are worth. We know that
as citizens and as teachers we also pay tax, we also want to be paid
meaningful salaries and pay the tax and be citizens. We can’t honestly
not stand up and say we’re citizens and ultimately exist in a welfare
situation where we survive on charity, no!

In 1980 to 1988, teachers were able to survive. In 1988 to 1996
teachers were almost living normal lives, they could send their
children to school, they could afford holidays, they could afford cars,
they could afford, but after 1999, things went from bad to worse.
Teachers were labelled enemies of the State, we were being punished!
Salaries stopped coming, they became meaningless and so we are simply
saying we want to be paid.

Even those you are talking about in the private schools, they are
actually being underpaid because a lot of these private schools are
making a killing!

A lot of these private schools that are run by politicians and the
churches are exploiting people and that must come to an end because we
must start dictating the pace as the workers. Even though it is correct
that teachers, the world over are not the best paid of workers but we
are simply saying because we know that we are citizens and we observe
all these things that are on the table, we must also be enjoying from
the same cake that everybody else is enjoying.

GONDA: And you are saying that your compatriots in the Diaspora earn so
much and you want that but is the comparison realistic given the
gradual slide of the Zimbabwean education system?

MAJONGWE: It is. Teachers in Zimbabwe are as good as teachers anywhere
else in the world. In fact every other school in South Africa has a
Zimbabwean teacher. Every other school in Namibia, name it in the
region, because of the quality of the teachers that are coming from
here. And none the less, we are simply saying as teachers in Zimbabwe,
we must be paid so that we don’t go to those areas. We are patriotic
citizens; we want to work in our country, just like the doctors, just
like the nurses, just like the engineers.

I think it is incumbent upon this new government to make sure that they
correct this anomaly once and for all where the teachers in Zimbabwe
earn competitive salaries. And that is the only way we then can be able
to keep our education standard at the apex where it has always been.
And I think that if anybody wants to challenge me on this one I will
put my head on the block. Zimbabwean teachers are the best, they are
the best trained and we want to deliver. This is why you are honestly
going to find out that, talk to any person from any university in South
Africa, they will tell you that when they have students from Zimbabwe,
they know that that year they will have quality education because we
are talking of people who have been groomed very well from the
background upwards. Now when we got to a stage where we are now, where
even the people who are in our universities, in our teachers’ colleges
are just the riff-raff, people who are coming from anywhere, then we
are sacrificing the same education that we want to talk about.

GONDA:  But right now children are also suffering because they’re not
being taught and don’t you think by refusing to go to work and refusing
this starter pack of US$100, this will actually shut down the education
system and won’t this contribute to undermining democracy?

MAJONGWE: The question we ask – are we in a normal environment? I think
the answer is no. Are teachers earning good salaries? We say no. Do
teachers have to lead normal lives? We say yes. How do they lead these
normal lives?

They must get food, they must dress properly, and they must be able to
stay in a proper housing. And how else is that going to be done – if
they put their head on the block and say we must be paid reasonable and
meaningful salaries. Then that can happen. We were in a war situation.

Apparently the other challenge that we actually observe, the government
and the (former) Minister Chigwedere and his Permanent Secretary Dr
Mahere were not engaging people, we obviously were not meeting them
unlike the situation where the first day that the Prime Minister took
office, we got a call to meet the Prime Minister. Two days down the
line we were able to meet the Minister and we think that if David
Coltart the current Minister of Education had been with the Ministry a
long time ago, the Ministry would not be where it is today. We are
talking of somebody who is accommodative, somebody who will listen to
what you are saying and somebody who will acknowledge that they have
made mistakes. Not the character of Chigwedere who knows that when they
were doing, when they were at their best in terms of destruction they
still told the world that our education was at the top.

When they were destroying and lacerating ZIMSEC into pieces they just
said everything was normal. Now the results are not yet out from way
back as June

2008 – they still want to continue and say everything is normal. People
who want to stand up and say schools in Zimbabwe are open when we know
they are not.

Once the process of dialoguing and consultation becomes the key
principal we are likely to go to Canaan. I think that the fact that we
have been engaged, we have been convinced that the government that took
over power under Morgan Tsvangirai took empty coffers. We are now
appreciating and on Monday morning at 9 o’clock we are going to make a
press statement to the country. We are calling all teachers to go back
to their work stations and we are simply saying the term must now start
in earnest because we are saying Zimbabwe is our country. These
children you talk about are our children, they are our sisters, our
hearts bleed when we see them being thrown into the abyss of abject
poverty because of selfish politicians of the nature of Chigwedere and
company.

I think time has come for us to go forward to engage one another and
have the process of dialogue. But we must also make it very clear that
we are going back with a heavy heart because we want to salvage
something for these kids and for our country. And we will go back to
the trenches once that situation is not addressed to our satisfaction.

I must also be very clear here some of our teachers shot us in the foot.

They are the ones who went back to teach in these schools and were
being paid 10 US dollars. So the government is now saying if your
members went back to be paid 10 dollars why are you refusing to come
back because we are now paying you 100 US dollars? I think we must also
make sure that we don’t exonerate our members from such irresponsible
trade union behaviour but nonetheless they are our members, we’ll take
them on board and we’ll try and make sure that we address the situation
once and for all.

For the record we are saying there are other demands that the Ministry
under David Coltart has promised that they’ll look into and we are
quite happy with the way David Coltart has handled our presentations to
him so far.

GONDA: This is a sudden u-turn. So now you are going back to work – and
is it because of your meeting with the new Education Minister David
Coltart?

MAJONGWE:  It’s not just because of the meeting, it’s because of the
meeting that we have had with the Prime Minister, a meeting we had with
the Minister and we have also been consulting our membership, we have
also been consulting other stakeholders because we also want public
opinion on our side, we want to move with the people. I think we have
made our point. I think the lesson that every revolutionary has been
taught – when you score and declare victories don’t push them too far
because ultimately you then lose relevance. We have made our point and
we are simply saying to the new government we are watching and watching
closely. We want them to look at the issues around the way the Ministry
is governed, the teachers’ conditions of service, political violence
and many other issues around even the inclusion of the Progressive
Teachers’ Union of Zimbabwe as a relevant stakeholder – because you
will know and you will understand that under the Zanu-PF regime, PTUZ
was not invited at all these government education ministry meetings.

It was only ZIMTA who were attending and we honestly believe that it’s
actually going to be better for us because we will then be able to
communicate our message and be able to be understood and to be heard.

I think once that is done, that will then give us a road on which to
trod on, considering that we are citizens of this country, we want
things to work, we want normalcy to return, we want donors to come back
and we are simply saying we must give the parents of these children
value for money in terms of what we will be delivering in our schools.

GONDA: So what did Mr Tsvangirai and Mr Coltart say on the issues of
your demands and what reforms did they say they’re willing to adopt to
ensure the success of the education system?

MAJONGWE: I might not be able to give you these because it will be very
unfair but I will basically say that the demands that we are making are
such that those teachers who left and went away for a coterie of
reasons, they must come back into the profession, no questions asked.
The people who basically lost property and a lot of other things must
also be in line for compensation. We are also saying as a trade union
we want to see certain things that are going to be positive, the issues
around housing as retention packages. Teachers must come back and they
must be at least be assured that they will be able to get a stand,
because the major reason why teachers were working in Zimbabwe since
1980 is not that we were getting the best of salaries but there was
just this reassurance that things would happen. One day you could own a
house, one day you could own a car and all that hope has been lost.

This is why we are saying we must go back, restore the confidence, make
sure every other citizen feels part and parcel of the process, then we
will move forward together, but nonetheless, we are very clear and we
will be very wary, we will be watching and looking and monitoring the
progress closely.

We are not just going to give these guys an open cheque – like what we
did with many others, of these destructive Ministers who worked this
Ministry.

We want to be involved at every other right and left turn that the
Ministry is going to take. We want to know who is being appointed in
the Ministry, where and why, what are their qualifications. We want to
see a clear de-politicisation of the Ministry in terms of the head
office, in terms of the provinces as well as headmasters. We have
scenarios where a lot of these headmasters who are in our schools are
mere political appointees. People who are being appointed to be EOs
(Education Officers) with the agenda of doing nothing besides to
politically silence the progressive voices in our schools – and I think
time has come for us to say let us bury the hatchet and let the best
people take over leadership and this country will go back to where it
has always been.

GONDA: How many teachers are actually left in Zimbabwe right now and is it known how many left this country?

MAJONGWE: This is one other reason why we are simply saying schools
must open again. We now don’t know how many teachers we have – so we
are simply saying for progress’s sake let every person go to where they
should be. We do a head count and we see how many teachers we need. For
the record I’ll tell you that according to the ministry’s statistics
they are saying we have 80 000 teachers left in the country. At PTUZ we
maintain that there are 70 000 teachers and of the 70 000, 40 000
teachers are non-qualified teachers.

These are people who have been brought in as relief teachers, some of
them as spies, and some of them just as gap fillers. And we are simply
saying it is quite sad we are talking of having 115 000 teachers in
2005, 2006 and we have gone down to 80 000, which I think is a
government conservative figure because we are convinced the country has
the capacity to produce 5 to 6 000 teachers a year and it is going to
take us 6 to 7 years to ultimately go to our optimum – that is if these
teachers who are in the region are not going to come back.

But I am confident because we are having a lot of people who are asking
and they are making enquiries and they want to come back. Just like our
organisation called PTUZ-South Africa they are also making enquiries
and we are making an effort to submit their letter and their concerns
of teachers in South Africa to the Minister on Monday at 9 o’clock when
we meet him.

But I think the bottom line has to be made, that teachers want to come
back but it will be three, four, five years before we get to our
optimum number that we want and ultimately be able to get the glamour
we have always had.

Because we are talking of schools that don’t have teachers, that don’t
have desks, that don’t have window panes, that don’t have doors. The
doors were being taken off the walls by the war veterans, they were
making coffins out of them, they were taking window panes and taking
them to their houses and they were burning desks.

It is quite sad and my heart bleeds when I look back to say why did
this destruction happen? Because somebody or the Minister of Education
Chigwedere did not have the guts to stand up to the people who were
moving around destroying our schools wantonly and in a barbaric manner
what happened in the years from 2002.

GONDA: So does this mean that when you say you are going back you’re
actually accepting the 100 US dollars that is being offered or you’ve
been offered more since your meeting with Mr Coltart and Mr Tsvangirai?

MAJONGWE: The reason why we are saying we are going back is we want to
get to the basics first, we want to know how many teachers we have,
because if we are going to get any assistance from anybody they will
ask you how many teachers we have, how many teachers do you have and
what are we going to say? We don’t know because even at the Ministry
level there are a lot of ghost teachers that are being paid through the
Ministry and I think we must stop that because we have reason to
believe that there are people down the line who are basically lining
their pockets.

GONDA: Are you going to be offered more than the 100 US dollars or are you going to take what is being offered right now?

MAJONGWE: We are going to take what has been offered now but that
doesn’t stop us from demanding more. For the record, the government has
been telling us that they are going to be paying us the US dollar
component and another Zimbabwean dollar component which is meaningless
because the newspaper, the Financial Gazette costs Z$1 000 dollars
re-valued but the money that were put into teachers’ accounts is 600
dollars. So these are some of the things that we are obviously saying
we don’t accept. But we are just giving them the benefit of doubt. We
have a new Finance Minister, we have a new Prime Minister, we have a
new Minister of Education, we want to give them the chance and
basically help them fill up their coffers before some of the money
starts trickling to the teachers and other civil servants. We have the
right to build Zimbabwe together again.

GONDA: So will teachers become more accountable and accept performance standards if awarded higher salaries?

MAJONGWE: I think any normal person will concede that reality. A lot of
the teachers have not been working for a long time, we need a few
months to adjust, but let me assure you, we have the best in terms of
our teachers and we will produce and deliver. And we want to assure all
the parents and all the school children that once the term starts at a
date that we will announce on Monday we are going to give our best shot
and we want to just say education will return to normalcy and we are
going to provide quality education to our children.

GONDA: Was your main concern the removal of Zanu-PF or better work
conditions or both and also what is your position now that Mugabe is
still in power?

MAJONGWE: Apparently I must state categorically clear that I’d always
maintained that it was going to be very difficult to remove Mugabe from
power completely and even if he goes, he’s going to leave a lot of
remnants in terms of people who will be Mugabe-like. But the bottom
line is with one foot on the pitch it is also good because the
progressive democratic forces of Zimbabwe will now be involved in
everything. It is unfortunate that it might take time but having
stomached Mugabe for 28 years why can’t we then be ready to work with
him for a few years? One thing that is very clear is Mugabe is 85
tomorrow and why would we then doubt that the man is no longer at his
best, the man is finished, the man is not as dynamic and as charismatic
as he was and we are simply saying if the MDC is clear about what they
want to achieve they will get it anyway because if the Zimbabweans were
able to wait for 28 years, why can’t they wait for 28 months, why can’t
they wait for 28 days, for 28 hours, 26 minutes, 26 seconds. We will be
able to get to a point where Mugabe will leave and he will leave very
soon.

GONDA: You were being perceived as being treacherous, now is it one of
the reasons why you have decided to go back to work because of the
outcry?

MAJONGWE: No apparently not. No we are simply saying we have fought and
we have won. We wanted a new Minister, some of the things that we
wanted have happened. We wanted a new Minister of Education, we wanted
a new thinking at the top of government, we wanted new concessions and
all these are being given so we are simply saying the strike was never
going to go to perpetuity. The strike was going to end at one point.
And the good thing is basically that teachers who earned 2 rand in
January and they are getting an opportunity to earn 1 000 rand this
month, so we are simply saying we have at least moved, we don’t agree
with what they have been paid but we are saying let’s move on.

We can’t continue fighting otherwise we become irrelevant. We also are
taking serious consideration of what our members are saying. Our
members are saying we have fought, we have won, let’s put this victory
in our bag and we look for another victory. We’ll be going back to the
trenches. If this new government is not going to take serious our
consideration, we will go back to the trenches in March. There’s no
problem, we still have our arsenal, we still have our people, we still
have our generals and we still have our high command. We are ready to
go back to the trenches as and when the situation obtains for us to go
to the bush.

GONDA: Thank you very much Raymond Majongwe.

MAJONGWE: Thank you.