West has no right to preach to Africa, Archbishop Desmond Tutu says

During the apartheid era he was hailed as a messiah of Africa, touring the townships in his cassock and crucifix while the ANC leaders were in jail. Now he is the worlds voice of conscience, a winner of the Nobel Peace Prize who dispenses advice to America and Africa alike. Before the war in Iraq, he tells us, he telephoned the White House to try to stop the invasion. As leader of the group of Elders a select group of senior statesmen he has worked behind the scenes in Zimbabwe and tried to secure the release of Aung San Suu Kyi.

As Barack Obama visited Africa at the end of the G8 summit yesterday, he said the election of Americas first black President had given people of colour a new spring in their step. It is, as some have said, a Mandela moment.

Archbishop Tutu is Nelson Mandelas spiritual alter ego, although he says of his friend: He does wear strange shirts. Like the Dalai Lama, another close friend, the Archbishop manages to flit between charity and celebrity hanging out with Madonna and Sir Richard Branson as well as orphans and refugees. I like her, he says of the pop star. I think shes genuine why shouldnt she adopt babies from Africa? Superstars are just as admiring of him he filmed a video message for U2s latest world tour at the invitation of Bono.

The Archbishop, 77, manages his own Facebook page (John Hurt and Kofi Annan are among his friends) and is an avid emailer, signing off Arch although he has not yet learnt to Twitter. Im not smart enough, he laughs.

He is not afraid to take on the vested interests of aid agencies, presidents or prime ministers. Voters, he says, must keep leaders to the commitments on tackling poverty that they made at the G8.

President Obama, with his Kenyan roots, will, he believes, have more impact on Africa than his predecessors. He can be more forthright with African leaders without being accused of being a neocolonialist . . . He has given people the world over a new sense of hope. But he is too bright to have a bloated view of himself. He has a smart wife who helps to keep his feet firmly on the ground.

The West should in general, he warns, beware of preaching about corrupt African dictators. You could say the same about Europe. You get a Churchill and then theres a long wait . . . What gives me a great deal of hope for Africa is looking at the history of Europe. Very recently you had two world wars, you had the Holocaust, you had dictatorships in Spain, Portugal and Greece. There was a time when Italy was changing governments like you change pairs of socks. There was the Soviet Union, Stalins gulags. You forget that you really made a mess of things. It was a Western country that was the first and only country to use weapons of mass destruction. [Africa] is not on a level with Western people.

I can be nice and say theres hope for us. When Im a little angry I say For goodness sake you need a fairly large dose of modesty. You ought to be hiding your heads for the things you have actually done.

Archbishop Tutu wants a new generation to join in his campaign for peace. Nobel laureates dont come ready formed from heaven, he says. A kid asked me a few years ago, What do you do to get the prize? I said, Its very easy, you just need three things you must have an easy name, like Tutu for example, you must have a large nose and you must have sexy legs. I was wearing shorts so I flashed mine at him. The point is that anyone can do it.

There are, he says, no insurmountable challenges. We see a great deal of evil and we ought not to pretend that its other than it is stark and awful and ugly. But it isnt the whole picture. There are very many good things that happen in the world.

The international wave of repulsion against apartheid in the 1980s changed Africa for ever but he admits he is disappointed what is taking place in parts of the continent now. There are terrible things that we never thought would happen going on in South Africa, he says.

Remember that we are only fifteen years old. If everyone was saying This is what we want to do then there would be greater cause for worry. But there are people who are saying, This is a betrayal of our legacy.

Archbishop Tutu wont write off Jacob Zuma, South Africas new Prime Minister, just yet. He won a resounding victory in a fair election with a nearly 80 per cent turnout, lets give him a chance.

The world should also in his view wait to see how the Government of national unity in Zimbabwe works out. He cant understand why Robert Mugabe who once called him an angry, evil and embittered little bishop went so wrong.

We used to show off with Zimbabwe. We showed off with President Mugabe because he is so well spoken and hes a natty dresser. After his first victory against Ian Smith he was so magnanimous.

Archbishop Tutu is disheartened by the way in which African countries have squandered their natural resources. Its awful to have Zimbabwe become as it has become. Its awful to see so many dictators in Africa who have messed up. When you contrast what Qatar does with its oil revenue with what Nigeria does I feel very deeply saddened. He warns, though, that aid is often a double-edged sword. The poor people that I know are not poor people who want handouts. Most poor people are very proud what they want is a hand up not a handout. Some of it is done in the wrong way, there are things that are being done well and there are some that is not being done well.

Does he think the continent should be sorting out its own problems with the help of the African Union? There is a plethora of conflicts. We have already seen the role that African peace makers have had. But in many instances take the Aids pandemic there are things that we can get from yourselves. Most of the time Bush was a very bad President. One of his legacies is the fund set up to deal with malaria and HIV/Aids. We rely a great deal on the resources that you have. The African Union should be able to ask for help and not feel that thats undermining.

The man who chaired South Africas Truth and Reconciliation Commission says that words are often worth more than money. You would have thought that most of the people who came \ were hoping for material gains. It was nothing of the sort people wanted to to tell their story. A young guy who had been involved in police action which left him blind came to the Commission and told his story and when he had finished he was still blind but a broad smile broke over his face and he said, You have given me back my eyes.

Archbishop Tutu believes there are worrying parallels between the Middle East and apartheid South Africa. The things I have seen in Israel with the treatment of the Palestinians reminds me of our own experience at home the checkpoints where you have arrogant officers. There are things there that didnt happen in South Africa. We didnt have collective punishment where homes were destroyed. This is something that has to be resolved. You cant have people being treated as they are. It doesnt improve Israels security. The Gazans are dehumanised. The protests in Iran, he says, showed that people have a natural desire for democracy. I would tell people that you are meant for freedom, its something that each one of us knows.

He was horrified by the election of two British National Party MEPs but says: Its part of the price you pay for being a free society . . . When you have a strain of instability as a result of the economic downturn plus all the wonderful things that have been happening in Westminster, then those people who pretend that they can give fairly straight forward answers to complicated questions tend to draw some people. Everyone looks for scapegoats. This is what Hitler did when the economy in Germany wasnt going OK they didnt look for the actual reasons, they said its the Jews. Whats wonderful is that so many feel outraged that parties like the BNP can garner enough votes to be elected.

Britain, he says, is far more tolerant than it used to be. When I came to Birmingham twenty years ago there were people who were upset that a school could be named after Nelson Mandela whom they castigated as a terrorist. How wrong can you be? Now there is a black archbishop.

Archbishop Tutu is probably the most famous archbishop in the world.Is he ever going to retire? Ive retired, Ive retired, Ive retired, Ive retired, he says, with one of his uproarious cackles, but dont say that in front of my wife, please.

CV
Born October 7, 1931

Background His father was a teacher and his mother a cleaner and cook at a school for the blind in Johannesburg. Here he met Trevor Huddleston, a parish priest in the township. One day, said Tutu, I was standing in the street with my mother when a white man in a priests clothing walked past. As he passed us he took off his hat to my mother. I couldnt believe my eyes a white man who greeted a black working-class woman.

Family He married Nomalizo Leah Shenxane, a teacher he met while at college. They have four children: Trevor Thamsanqa, Theresa Thandeka, Naomi Nontombi and Mpho Andrea.

Career Having been ordained an Anglican priest, he led the campaign against apartheid with Nelson Mandela. In 1984 he became the second South African to win the Nobel Peace Prize. He also received the Gandhi Peace Prize in 2005. He was the first black South African Anglican Archbishop of Cape Town, and primate of the Church of the Province of Southern Africa. He chaired the Truth and Reconciliation Commission and is chairman of The Elders. Mandela said of Tutu: He is sometimes strident, often tender, never afraid and seldom without humour.

Quick fire

Madonna or Mozart? Both

Old Testament or New Testament? Both

Nelson Mandela or Martin Luther King? Nelson Mandela. I suppose he is my friend even if he wears strange shirts

Beach or bush? Beach

America or Europe? Id better whisper it but America I love Disney World.

The Times (UK)